Naturopathic doctor perspective - Dr. Matt Schlechten!
Naturopathic doctor Matt Schlechten did a great interview and Q&A for us two weeks ago! We started off discussing why it's important to seek professional advice when dealing with a cancer diagnosis, as this is one of the first steps I recommend people take when they find out they have cancer. After that we had a 45-minute Q&A session in which Dr. Matt answered a lot of great questions! His depth of knowledge and experience provided a lot of value for us all, which I'm still applying today. I pray this information will change your life and the lives of those you know with cancer! The show notes and video can be found here, below.
I also wanted to interview Dr. Matt because I've found that people rush into decisions at times, not doing adequate research first, at the pressure of others and fear of the disease, and sometimes they pay a heavy price for it. Then they come back either to me or other practitioners seeking help to turn things around (I got a call like this yesterday). In our interview, Dr. Matt recommended a few days of research and prayer before making a decision. In my own journey I took a few weeks before deciding on my next big steps, with the help of someone who was already versed in holistic healing methods. However long you take though, be sure you seek multiple opinions from others who have experience. And as Dr. Matt said in our interview, when he went to buy a new phone, he went to the phone store where they offered what he was looking for and got advice from the guy who spent the majority of his life helping people buy phones. So, if you're looking for help with cancer, seek advice from those who spend most of their time dealing with it and have had success with it. That includes patient advocates and cancer coaches, like myself, as well as doctors, researchers, etc. Don't do it alone! We are here for you! 😊🙏💪
2:55 Why is it important to seek professional medical advice after a cancer diagnosis.
Like buying a phone plan. Seek the advice of the guy who sells phones full-time. He is the expert. It's the same with medical care.
As a patient, you are your primary doctor. Doctors can't fully, 100% care for each case.
Everything looks good on the internet. Fenbendazole doesn't work out that well (Fenbendazole is trendy right now)
Let them tell you typically how it goes.
100 melanoma responds really well typically to a certain supplement, but that doesn't mean that all will respond the same way. There tend to be trends. For example, squamous cell carcinoma. He's treated 60 of them. There's a certain time to allow a message to come from someone with lots of previous experience. He has mentors to him. When they give him an idea, when it makes sense he's going to try it, and he won't hold them accountable if it doesn't work. In the same way, you make your doctor's recommendations yours and you're taking responsibility for it. The doctors can feed you good ideas. It should make sense in your reason gifted mind. Your therapies should make sense. In general, chemotherapy doesn't make sense to him. For example, you'll have 6 months or a year if you take the chemo. Doesn't make sense. He's spent 3 years on the phone at CHIPSA explaining therapies to patients. The system makes sense - it's less invasive, the theory makes sense. If conventional makes
No matter how many mentors a person has, it's your cross to bear. It has to be your choice because you have to deal with the consequences. Go home, pray about it, talk to someone about it. When you come to some clarity about it make a decision. 3-4 days, make your move. For most people time is of the essence. Most people under-gun it. If you have a game plan, move on it. It doesn't have to be perfect. Most natural medicines aren't drastic (contrasting something like surgery and removing an organ which you can't put back).
11:20 Likes to tell people to check in in 4 weeks. There are tumor markers to help ID which direction a person is going in. There are ways to confirm that the treatment is doing what you want it to so that it's not blind faith. There's usually feedback quicker than most doctors say, such as 6 months.
A doctor can be a guide but the proof is in the pudding - the results.
12:17 You need faith in a doctor - you need proof to keep going with the doctor.
13:15 You can't just do what your doctor tells you to do. You need some discernment. He's comfortable with low-invasive (acupuncture, etc.) and more invasive naturopathic therapies - Apatone, GcMAF, turmeric, etc. At CHIPSA they use low dose chemo, Coley's toxins. He straddles both worlds - 1/2 the time he talks them out of the conventional approach he gives them. E.g. Lung cancer with 4% success rate with conventional - might look at something else. That said some people are convinced essential oils will save them and he tries to talk people into targeted therapy, which is less toxic than chemo but can be very effective. There are lots of varieties of integrative doctors - taking a one-week course is not an integrative doctor. Has to be someone who is confident with both sides of medicine who can walk down the middle. The conundrum in practice right now is that doctors are being trained in med schools that are funded by pharmaceutical companies that want to push drugs.
16:26 Listen to as many options as available to you, you never know when it might be time to shift gears in the future; it's really important to know all that's available and pick the route that's right for you. Most people didn't know integrative medicine is available. Don't see commercials. Let people know all that you have to offer and let people see what they want to do. A lot of this is awareness - CHIPSA does a good job reaching people right after they're diagnosed rather than waiting until they're stage 4.
18:26 In an ideal setting people should start in the lightest treatment first. Don't start with the chainsaw, start with the butter knife, then the steak knife… Start with naturopathic medicine and then go to surgery if needed, etc.
19:30 Should people look for experts in their particular type of cancer? Typically, the best and worst oncologists will have the same treatments in general. He'd rather have someone who has the best outcomes.
His approaches from cancer to cancer are generally the same. Wound the tumor with low-dose chemo and then support the immune system.
GcMAF in a nebulizer is unique for lung cancer. Targeted therapy like Tagrisso is really good for lung cancer, not so much with melanoma. There are some nuances but a doctor wouldn't necessarily have to be an expert in that area to be useful.
21:38 How to find a good naturopathic or integrative doctor? The 4 years he was in med school, 1998-2002 - all his buddies are running the major centers in America. There are good ones and bad ones. It's easily to read a couple of supplement but the ones who have been in this wrestling match a long time are the good ones. There are a handful of doctors he addressed. There are a lot of mid-level practitioners who support the cancer patient during treatment but wouldn't be comfortable with doing just the natural treatment with them. He had a 6 year old patient for lymphoma. When he was in Montana he had a patient on the east coast but couldn't find anyone from New York or south and west who would be as helpful, he recommended they travel to him.
23:53 Should people find a local naturopathic doctor to work with? State to state you have to apply to be a naturopath and there are 18 states. Right now he's doing mostly phone consulting with broad brush strokes.
25:00 He can work globally via the internet. If he's the guy figuring out the case it's $300 per hour; it never seems to go that long but the average consult is 15-20 minutes; $75-$85. He talks fast, so most people only need 15 minutes. It's cheaper than any MD's visit. It's manageable for most people.
26:30 A few success stories of his? Sometimes he's the consultant. Non small cell lung cancer spread to his lungs and liver who wasn't responded to anything at CHIPSA. He got a biopsy of his tumor and found a targeted medicine for him. 4 months later he's cancer-free after starting Tagrisso!! Now he's going back to work! A little information changed his world! Another case where he was the primary doctor. Scapula, spleen, appendix, pectoral muscle; 4x in size every 3 months. They did turmeric, GcMAF, laetrile, ozone, glutathione, artesunate for 6-8 months, 2-3 IVs every week. Then he didn't want to spend the money any more and he called up 4 months ago and he's cancer-free. Now he's back at work as a roofer.
29:00 60% of the time he had success; 40% of the time not. As he came into the broader world of integrative doctors, he's realized he has extraordinary results. He's pleased that it works out as often as it does. He'd love to guarantee that things work but he can't. The best he can do is to find the best tools to support a person. He has a lot of rationale that goes into what he recommends for people. He has an idea, a theory. He knows that healing is possible; let's approach the situation as though you can make it. Make the plan as if you're going to go over the bar. He doesn't want to be the one to give up on someone; God's the one who determines that. He always tries, as long as there is at least a 1% chance.
Q&A
32:30 Q) Thoughts on COC protocol? stage 4 MMR endometrial cancer now NED after 6 months of Keytruda. Is this the best time to find circulating stem cells? Her doctor wants to stay on Keytruda for 2 years total, until December 2021.
A) Keytruda can be fabulous but doesn't work as well as it's touted. Seems to work for about 20% of the population; when it works it works really well. There's a potential for the Keytruda to attack you - "wrong target syndrome" if there is no cancer - the immune system attacks colon (diarrhea) or lungs (pneumonitis). Watch for it and prepare to stop if something bad happens. COC won't hurt - He hasn't done it enough times to be convinced it'll stay in his tool belt. There are other things he has that are more consistent. He has seen a couple of success stories, but not enough to match the hype around it. He would go probably further than the COC protocol and get a CTC - circulating tumor cells. He uses RGCC.
36:04 Q) 3.5 years ago was diagnosed with Pleiomorphic liposarcoma - grew from 7cm to 15cm after radiation and a few vacations her doctors took before having surgery. Radiation
No evidence of disease after 3 years and checks on the lungs. What would you do if you find cancer in the lungs (where it would spread).
A) He saw about 1200 patients during his 3
Saw about 4 pleiomyosarcomas. Coley's does work really well with Sarcoma. It works really well and it's super illegal (you have to get it in Mexico). He hasn't treated it with
Ozone, hyperbaric, Coley's, dendritic cell, antiangiogenic vaccine - very expensive but very effective. There's probably another way to skin that cat but hasn't tried it yet. She's in a good place and wants to have a good plan B. It was neat for him to go to CHIPSA to use things that he couldn't use here in the US. The trick is how much can we do legally? What's the translated version - mistletoe, curcumin, artesunate. Probably something in that neighborhood. Any recommendations for prevention? A) Gerson, even if it's not 100%. Long-term Gerson
A little more fat, protein and flavor for long-term.
Enemas, juicing - all cancers are caused by or affected by toxicity. Washing it all out of your body makes sense. Detox is helpful but the diet itself actually stimulates the immune system. Keeping the immune system is always a good idea. GmCSF brings more white blood cells into the blood, that helps with surveillance. Some studies on melanoma - 600-person study. One group with 2 shots GmCSF per week for year; one group without, and the first group's survival rates were 3 times longer.
Q) Is it possible to do CTC test to find sarcoma?
A) It's not a dead lock but it's measurable and you can track it. (Not diagnostic but can be correlative.)
Q) Dr. wants to do an MRI to determine if she has metastasis.
A) It's clean technology, go for it. It's rare to have any negative side effects. It's a worthy tradeoff to find cancer rather than have a small risk of memory loss. If you don't check for a year then you'd give it 9 months to grow. It's a pretty good maintenance protocol.
Q) Doing Gerson, GmCSF - anything recommended for detox other than juicing and enemas?
A) There are specific nutrients your liver needs to break things down. Phase I is inducible. If you get carbon tetrachloride, it'll automatically open up a side group. The phase II conjugate is like a cork that fits on the end of the molecule. You'll run out of them, they're amino acids, mostly. Glycine, glutamine, n-acetyl cysteine, Glucuronolactone, taurine - there are detox powders. Detox - if it has a lot of amino acids it's probably useful
Can go to Whole Foods and look at the labels. He's not confident in any doctors in Texas. Arizona is the next closest place. Jake Psenka, Oasis of Healing w/Dr. Lodi in Pheonix; President of the Oncology Association of Naturopathic Doctors (OncANP), Dr. Daniel Rubin is good. These are all in Pheonix. Ken Proefrock in Sun City.
46:35 Q) Fiance had hepatitis C and was given two doses of the medication that gave horrible side effects. The liver got so bad with cancer, he has 4 chemoembolizations to try to get the cancer cells out. This January it will be 2 years since the liver transplant. Sometimes cancer cells can spread, so now he has liver cancer and a lung and a half. They're in Charleston, SC. She was in nutraceutical sales.
A) The trick is that liver cancer doesn't has seen chemo do wonders with leukemia, lymphoma. It's aggressive and will require big guns. More than something over the phone or the health food store. Maybe something like a clinic south of the border - CHIPSA, etc. because the lighter dose chemo - which shows the cancer to the immune system - he'd call them to talk to the doctor for cost-benefit and likely benefit.
Since he's a transplant patient he'd not be a candidate for immunotherapy. He's a meat eater.
With each case you have to match the strength of the cancer with the strength of the therapy. On the east coast there won't be much. The Mayo clinic will not be any better than any local
51:45 Q) Mycosal fungoides - only on the skin (lymphoma); PET and blood negative
Did UVB light therapy 3-4 months but got hyperpigmentation; sits in sun 20-30 min per day. Any holistic medications recommended? Lives in Georgia.
A) Would go with light level naturopathic stuff - IV vitamin C. UV therapy is great but you need something that will hit every cell in your body. IV Vitamin C will go systemic. Combined with dry infrared sauna - you're putting a moist organism into a dry box and it encourages water to get out of you; you'll sweat and get toxins out of the skin, esp when combined with IV C because it'll start to kill the cells a bit and the sweat will pull them off. Do about 50g (ramp up to 50g at least). Alternative MD who has dipped his toe into naturopathic formulary, but if you google it
Q) Should she be alarmed? It hasn't gotten worse but should she be afraid of it going to the lymph nodes?
A) Not alarmed but take action. - ozone and sauna. Ozone cleans out the stink in the garage, kills chemicals and odors. Draw blood out of the body, shoot ozone into it and drip it back in. Can also do ozone sauna - your head sticks out, steam gets pumped into the box and they pour ozone into the inside. You get direct contact with the tumors. Half an hour twice per week. Once per week IV C, until it looks better (visually). You can google ozone sauna - a spa may have it. He can help her find out how to buy one - $3000-$4000.
56:26 Q) I was just told today that the nodules in my lungs are from secretory breast cancer from years ago; my doctor recommends chemo - why chemo without knowing what type of cancer? A) Not necessarily appropriate to have surgery and can't really radiate the body. Not to say that chemo won't work - it has pretty good track record with breast cancer. You may or may not do it. There would certainly be gentler approaches that would be more gentle and effective and he'd be happy to talk to her about it more.
57:35 IV Vit C and IV glutathione, ozone and sauna - would those be beneficial to prevent sarcoma recurrence? Vit C detoxes chemicals and metals, freshens up the immune system; more useful in active cancer though. Not his first reach. What she needs is more preventative maintenance than active treatment. It's an 80% fit - won't hurt but would be more useful for gal with active tumors that need to be oxidized.
Q) She used to have ozone machine - felt like it was hard to breathe. Are there dangers with using it? A) You don't want ozone in your lungs (that's the only place you don't want it) - it's an irritant and causes you to cough. Don't use ozone machine when you're in the room.
There's a trick with doing it nasally - hold your breath. No harm with it killing off healthy bacteria - they give it rectally, for example, colon cancer - doesn't give dysbiosis that antibiotics would.
1:00:40 Has hyperbaric chamber at home. Stopped it because maybe her type of cancer likes oxygen? A) He doesn't buy it. If there is enough cancer that is compromising the lung tissue (like a balloon in a pressure chamber) they'll give her a chest x-ray to tell her to come in or not. Thinks it would be supportive to give your cells more oxygen; doesn't think it's an anti-cancer therapy. There are other things that do the job of wrecking cancer cells. Thinks IV Vitamin C would be good for her. There are a bunch of naturopaths in Tucson, AZ, even more in Pheonix - IV vitamin C, ozone, artesunate… a hundred therapies.
CTCA (Cancer Treatment Centers of America) is worthless - has had a lot of classmates go work for them. Garnish with a naturopath on staff. They just get to design the diets, basic. It's not frontline natural medicine, just marketing gimmick. They don't have the results, it's not working either. There are people doing more natural stuff rather than just do the chemo, especially in the Pheonix area.
(Bailey: I experienced the same with CTCA - it was more marketing than substance when I sought multiple opinions there.) Dr. Matt: People who have been on the inside there said they were not able to use their full scope as a doctor, to the best of their ability - they were just asked to be a nutritionist.
1:04:13 Q) Is ozonated water ok? A) Yes, it's ok. it cleans the water out. You'll get some [ozone] staying in the water to absorb it a little bit, but won't get much going into your body systemically. Good for treating ulcers, especially if you have a H. pylori infection because it'll kill that bug. He has cured a lot of ulcers with ozonated water. But not the best route of administration; rectal is probably the easiest; 50% as absorbed as an IV, it's cheap, can be done at home and gets absorbed well.
1:05:20 Any advice on Gleason 7 prostate cancer? (
1:05:35 He has a HOCATT machine, what do you think of it? I think it's brilliant and jealous
Infrared, rife, ozone, steam sauna in one - the swiss army knife of natural medicine. Excited to see how it works; thinks it's a very useful tool.
1:06:18 Prostate cancer question. There is the kind that will spread until you die; and the kind that sits there forever. Gleason 7 is in the middle. Could potentially be a time bomb so should address it but doesn't get a lot of blood circulation (2% of your blood supply). Sitz baths can get circulation opening and expanding. Alongside ozone, IV C, oral supps like saw palmetto, will have a better chance at getting the PSA down. Match the strength of the therapy with the strength of the disease. Def CON 1.5-2. Don't need a whole lot of fancy stuff but need some pressure with some local practitioners in his town. Whatever gets the PSA to go down… try out different stuff and monitor.
Been taking cannabis oil for 2 years and apricot seeds. Cannabis
A lot of the prostate treatments are rectal. There is some heat therapy (thermometer probe) - cancer doesn't like heat. Need to get direct contact with the area with the medicine.
1:09:20 What do you think about PEMF? Likes it 0 pumps energy into cells to get more oomph but won't melt cancer away. More useful as a supportive therapy than anticancer therapy (like hyperbaric).
Q) Esthesioneuroblastoma - heard of it?
A) Not specifically, but knows the category of it.
1:10:10 Q) Baking soda bath, burdock root, bladderwrack bath, soursop tea for cancer cells?
A) Likes the baths. We're acidic humans in a toxic world and that helps detox and balance things out. It's a lighter therapy and it's not very strong but a good gentle boost and it's great, he likes it.
1:10:54 Q) How do you get rectal ozone treatments?
A) There's one company he likes. You used to have to fill up using a silicon bag; but now you can run the ozone right off the machine but need to be able to gauge at a low flow rate (don't want too much air). Longevity Resources is one, has that dial. About $2000. Can get rectal treatments in most towns, around $50 - would probably pay for itself long-term to get the machine. More convenient to do it at home. Can treat kids' ear infections, clean out the garage with it, do useful things with it. Probably should text him and he'll help them get the right attachments from the company. Thinks everyone in the world should have a rectal ozone machine at home, so useful for so many things. For detoxing - colon cancer is common, helps break down toxins. Gets into your blood. Has treated sinus infections with ozone.
1:12:55 Q) Do you recommend the silver pulser (to make colloidal silver)?
A) For cancer it's great, yes.
1:13:35 His one desire is to be useful, hopes he's been useful tonight. :)
1:13:45 From his experience, for someone who has secretory breast cancer to lungs, is it useful?
A) It's useful but not stand-alone. Not the only thing he'd fight with. At CHIPSA they now have dendritic cell vaccine; high dose vitamin c; ozone, low dose chemo.
1:15:25 Soursop and burdock root - helpful?
Yes, useful oral support (tonics) - wouldn't rely on for his only treatment.
Burdock more for liver detox but useful herbs.
Q) Anything to be used with DMSO with prostate cancer?
A) Can be used in Ivs (like IV vitamin C), if medical grade; penetrates better (addresses hard to penetrate prostate). Stinks up the whole room - he stopped using it because he couldn't handle the smell of it in his clinic. Topically could be helpful for a topical agent, it helps with absorption of things into the skin.
1:17:03 Does Apatone have many side effects?
Oral, no. Except it's a little acidic and can give some people a little heart burn. If you run it in too fast as an IV can get a weird rash like a cold sore - have to do it slow. Oxidizes cancer in real time, so you can get pain at the tumor site as it drips in. You'll feel it eating at the cancer. It's very gratifying as a doctor but can be very uncomfortable as a patient. Can do lower dose. Orally - can get acid reflux sometimes, if that's the case then just take it with food.
1:18:54 Is it ok to take Triamcinolone (a topical steroid) for the mycosis fungoides?
A) A steroid won't be the best. Most skin conditions are things that are inside you trying to come out. But this kind of thing (steroid) would drive it back into the body and push disease even deeper - into organs like kidneys, spleen. Avoid topical steroids unless it's extremely bothersome. He would use sauna, ozone (purgative therapies) instead.
Q) Are black cumin or sesame seed oil ok to put on the skin?
A) Yes, those would be great.
1:20:50 Q) Is IV C contraindicated for patients who have hemochromatosis?
A) Yes, a little, because it helps with the absorption with iron.
If you ever get IV vitamin C or ozone there's a certain blood test you need to get to make sure that you have the enzyme that breaks down vitamin C. (G6PD) It can put you in a world of hurt if you don't have that enzyme.
Hasn't encountered it but would want to research it a bit because it would probably make it a little worse. Ask the doctor you're getting it from and get a second opinion if the doctor doesn't kow.
1:22:45 Q) Can apatone orally help with stage 4 bc while on chemo - mets to pleura and lung
A) Yes, it can enhance the absorption of the chemo by 500%. Gemcitabine and apatone was around 600% better return than the chemo alone. Everyone would do better if they did this. Vitamin C doesn't cancel out chemo because the K3 makes the vitamin C more oxidizing. He will debate the doctors on the topic and there are studies on it if the doctor argues against it.
1:24:12 Q) Heterozygote for H603D - doctors can't answer whether it's safe.
A) He wouldn't do it, would pick another therapy. She has endometrial cancer.
He would do artesunate. It's a single compound extract from the sweet wormwood plant. It's the active principle and works by attracting itself to iron and cancer cells. He'd do that instead of the vitamin C.
1:25:25 Q) Final thoughts?
A) Cancer needs a solution just like pneumonia has a solution by antibiotics. 1 in 3 people will get cancer in their lifetime. There's not an army of people who know the answers to it. We are responsible for figuring out answers for it. He doesn't have all the answers; there are a whole lot of things he hasn't tried yet. We have to figure this out because 4/12 people in an office will probably get it (we care about them). Do stuff, try stuff, research stuff, tell everyone about it. Whoever is left standing at the end of the fight has the answer. Figure out what works, pass it on, and beat this thing together. And prevent it! Think way upstream.
