Bacterial Origin of Cancer Theory with Jodi Ledley! 😊🥕🧄
Jodi is amazing!! :) She's a friend, mother, wife, teacher, horse shower, farmer, loves people, is a brilliant researcher on the mission to save the world from cancer.
Main takeaways from our interview:
- When you have cancer think about the possibility that it very well may be related to bacterial, viral, fungal infections. The same way you would not want to breed resistant bacteria in your body by taking antibiotics every time you have a cold or flu, think about cancer the same way - chemo can breed resistance. Chemo can be a tool in your toolbelt but it wouldn't be my top choice for cancer treatment from the get go.
- The best defense against bacterial, viral, fungal infections is food from the Farmacy! ;) Organic, non-GMO veggies and fruits. Load up daily on these antimicrobial and anti-cancer power houses!! Plants are amazing. You can go to PubMed and find thousands upon thousands of research articles on the benefits of a plant-based lifestyle in disease prevention and treatment. For example, searching "antimicrobial plant" in the database produced over 100,000 results! https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=+antimicrobial+plant
- Infections are often mistaken as cancer - when you have a biopsy, ask your doctor to test for pathogens! Check the slideshow linked below for which pathogens (bacteria, viruses and fungi) are associated with your type of cancer.
Here is the link for her presentation on bacteria and cancer which we discussed in her interview: https://adventureswithjodi.com/bacteria-and-cancer/
1:23 Super excited to talk about bacteria and it's relation to cancer! Couldn't sleep last night. It's comforting to know what we're dealing with.
1:50 Jodi's own healing story:
It's been almost 9 years that she had been sick for the previous 3 years - devastating neurologic problems. Extreme migraines - would vomit for days from the pain. The pain was so severe. She saw 19 different neurologists. They recommended an implant for her spine but they had no hope. One said he didn't know why her nerves wouldn't stop firing. She went home and googled what makes nerves rapid fire and found excitotoxins - things put in our food making foods and perfumes addictive. The connection is high glutamate levels. There is a connection with glutamate and cancer. She changed her diet and in 2 weeks became a new person.
3:30 That prepared her to be Casey's caregiver.
She was a national speaker for the Weston Price speaker and they thought they were doing all they could do - raised their own cattle, chicken and turkeys. When he was diagnosed she couldn't believe it because they weren't eating out at all, eating organic. 2 weeks of no animal and Square One and there was a major difference in the tumor! They had been listening to Chris Wark's interviews for years because Jodi's dad died of cancer at 39, Casey was diagnosed at 38. Everything happened for a reason and they were primed, had additional hope with that method.
There is just no end to the power of food! :) Casey had tremendous change in the look of his tumor. The second picture is from a sigmoid scope. He didn't have 2 colonoscopies. That day they found out he had stage 3, not stage 2 like they had thought. That's what got her home on the 3-hour drive - that it looked like the body was trying to heal.
By the time he had surgery 6-8 weeks later (they denied it because he didn't want to have chemo after the surgery), the pathology showed that there were TILS (tumor infiltrating lymphocytes), which is associated with a better prognosis. That was evidence to her that things were helpig before surgery. He did the Greek test for circulating tumor cells after surgery and those have been declining. The last time they tested - he's been almost 4 years out,
Dropped from 6.0-4.0 or 3.9. The trend was downward, they're hoping to do it again soon. They had been doing it every 6 months. We don't have any long-term survivors who have had the test done and shown
I'm very data driven. Not 100% sure - what aboout people like Ann Fonfa who had cancer 25 years ago? Maybe it's how well your body deals with whatever level of CTCs that you have - that may be a better way of judging that.
8:40 Casey had rectal cancer and that's what you're passionate about researching, correct?
Yes, there is a real problem with people under 40 with colorectal cancer. If things don't change, a 20-24 year old person will have a 124% increase in rectal cancer, and colon cancer is slightly lower. I wonder what it happening. If you add 124% to the current numbers… I became obsessed with what caused this. I don't want this to trickle down to my kids. It appears they are going to have a much higher risk. That led to the relationships between bacteria and cancer. A lot of those studies on young people, They're calling it biologically different and they're saying it is a microbiome problem.
9:50 The first bacterium she found is fusobacterium and they pretty much determined it to be the cause of colon cancer. There is endless information on fusobacterium and colon cancer. How is it stopped, how is it different. There was a NYT article and they found that the bacteria were burrowing into the cells. They could see it. There are so many things to talk about!
11:11 There are not only fusobacterium but also H. pylori burrow into the stomach.
Yes! They found it was burrowing into the stomach, causing inflammation which was the cause of the cancer. In research, found that every single tumor marker could be increased by bacterial infection. PSA decreased 42% by antibiotics. Anything you can think of - whether you have cancer or not, something you can pick up is from bacteria. Creating a slideshow that people can flip through and look. Last night was looking at LMR - lymphocytes to monocytes ratio, which is in a CBC, that people can see whether or not someone will have progression. Jodi works at a lab and when they see that monocytes are elevated, they know there is a bacterial infections.
Cancer cell genomes contain bacterial DNA, anaerobic bacterial blood infections were associated with a significant increase in the risk of colon cancer.
13:25 If someone has a blood infection she finds out what it is. There was a study that showed that those who had a clostridium infection were 42x times more likely to develop cancer within the next year! The conclusion: " This vigorous search for colorectal carcinoma should be done in any patient growing C. septicum with or without any symptoms." When you think about whether cancer is genetic or not, it's just not there. It's just not there. That's really fast.
14:20 How would you rank the evidence for this theory? Which are most compelling?
A) I'll just focus on colon cancer since that's my passion. There is a study on fusobacterium that shows that the metastatic sites in the liver, the bacteria were identical to the fusobacterium strain that was found within the cells, even ten years apart, the metastasis site matched. They tried to graft… none of the tumors without fusobacterium were associated with positive liver metastasis. The tumors that didn't have fuso didn't have metastasis. The higher the level of fusobacterium in the tumors, the lower the survival time in these people. When they tried to transplant colon cancer tumors into mice, they couldn't do it without the bacteria, so it did not take.
Bailey: In your presentation, you have a study on spouses.
Jodi: Yes, I want to tell you something that's really important to this… They took fusobacterium from a tumor and added human colon cancer cell lines. Under the microscope, fusobacterium bacteria from the primary tumor invaded the human colon cancer cell lines. Then once the lines were infected with fusobacterium they saw within the cell vesicle-like structures. They could see it happening. The other piece of this puzzle is - there is another study in which they gave a fecal transplant from someone with colon cancer to a mouse. The mouse developed cancerous polyps. If it's transferable then that's really something and leads to… People with spouses who have colon cancer are at an increased risk of colon cancer. That sounds pretty pathogenic.
17:15 What is next most compelling?
A) Stem cells - they know that the difference between a stem cell and a cancerous stem cell is bacteria within it. What is the body's response to intracellular pathogens. Inflammation and walling off the area. Could walling it off be the tumor?
Other convincing things… I keep a lot of lists. Excel maniac lol. Have a list of substances that have caused remission of cancer. Someone asked about colloidal silver. There is a case of a person on hospice who had stage 4 squamous cell carcinoma of the head and neck who was refractory (the cancer had not responded to conventional treatment) but he was cured with 120mg of colloidal silver every day (on the survivor chart). If one substance can take out cancer - colloidal silver is very antibacterial. Other substances that have caused people to go into remission…
Curcumin/turmeric - Dieneke Ferguson.
Glenn Sabin with EGCG from green tea. He had CLL and his case is Harvard-documented.
Ann Cameron with carrots - falcarinol is very antibacterial. Pretty much everyone that has had… every natural survivor… any cancer survivor has done something very antibacterial or on the flip side has grown protective bacteria, bacteria species. That's why Coley's toxins! It has entered my mind a lot lately. When you look at the history of chemo. Step bacteria from the ground was the first chemo. Chemo is an antibiotic. Radiation is also a treatment that treats infections. One more thing… I found something really crazy - white blood cell donors from young people. They took WBCs from young people and they gvae them to people with cancer. What they found was extreme necrosis from tumor. WBCs fight infection. I've circled this a million times and it's just more fascinating the more you look. I invite anyone to disprove it and I've tried, I welcome it because we need some great minds on this. Knowing what something is would certainly help to figure out what to do about it.
21:30 Bailey: PET scans…
Jodi: Yes, PET scans can't tell the difference between bacteria and tumors.
Bailey: Many times things on scans are assumed to be cancer when it's really an infection and the person is treated for cancer.
Jodi: Right. And back to them going right to cancer, I'm just really… with all of this evidence. Why are we not - in research, people's tumors get tested - how have we gone so long without testing tumors for bacteria? It's just crazy to me.
22:22 Q: Can you explain a little more about Coley's toxins?
A: Coley's is an injection of Strep bacteria. I think the official explanation is to induce an immune response because it's the most effective thing in taking out cancer cells. But strep just keeps coming up in cancer cures. That bacterium is probably the #1 cause of spontaneous remission. On my survivor chart I have different cases of remission and strep bacteria are on there quite a bit. Sometimes people get a strep infection and it wipes out the cancer. I think the reason is not only does it produce an immune response, but anything that can get inside that cell to compete with other bacteria are effective - they're using viruses to treat cancer. The Mayo Clinic has a study on Measles curing I think it was leukemia. But there are all sorts of interesting studies. There's one on plasmodia where they gave people plasmodia and after 3 months they give them artemisinin to get rid of the malaria that got rid of the cancer hopefully. That trial hasn't finished yet but I'm interested to hear the results of that.
24:20 Bailey: Me too. And recently I met a woman who had leukemia 4 times in elementary, middle, high school and college. Now she's 18 years in remission. I asked her if anything changed in her life. She said "no, but I did get this infection the last time" and I got goosebumps and started to cry and she got goosebumps because this was the first time I happened upon a case like this. The infection started in her face and went down to her chest and wouldn't stop even with antibiotics. They did exploratory surgery and found necrotic tissue and removed it and that was it. No more cancer in the last almost 2 decades!!
25:15 Jodi: That is amazing. That gives me chills! There was this morning I was looking at something called Bacteriotherapy. They're dancing around it and they're using bacteria in all sorts of ways to cure people. It was injections of different bacteria and also bacteria using probiotics, so their purpose was using one bacteria to take out another.
25:50 Bailey: Can you talk more about that?
Jodi: Every bacteria has another bacteria that kills it. Very much like yeast and viruses. It's like a turf war in your body. A lot of research is in what bacteria will kill fusobacteria or other bacteria related to cancer like H. pylori. They've done everything from nanoparticles in bacteria to take out bacteria to engineering bacteria to make it not pathogenic but take out the bacteria it needs to take out. I hope it actually gets to the people.
26:50 Comment from FB: Sign me up for some strep pills!
Jodi: What's funny about that is I do rapid Strep testing at work. Every time someone is positive I think "Oh, what could be done with this!"
Bailey: Sometimes I say it's almost like you kinda hope you get an infection but one that's controlled.
Jodi: I wonder with COVID - are people who get it going to have a better outcome? Any type of febrile illness will reduce your risk of cancer. I don't know but I hope so.
Bailey: I hope so too. It's hard, it's not available in the US (Coley's toxins). It's something I found in the Spontaneous Remission Project if you look at their Introduction. They have a chapter on each different system of the body and cancer in those different areas. I keep seeing over and over again infection, infection, Coley's toxins, Coley's toxins, and then even surgery and biopsy but the infections are really intriguing to me.
Jodi: I can get access to these departments and I wouldn't be allowed but if I could I would get to the histology department, get a tumor then take it to the micro department, determine what's in it. If we find a bacteria we put a sample on the plate and put antibiotic pills on there to find out what's effective. It would be interesting to put Strep on there, other bacteria and flavonoids and see which thing is most effective because when they study resistant bacteria they're studying flavonoids, enzymes and pathogenic bacteria. If somebody actually targeted each type, they think prostate cancer is driven by a bacteria that causes acne. There's tons and tons of data on that. What if we were able to just target what it is? It would make the route much shorter and would make a whole lot more sense for me.
30:05 Jodi: Bacterial infections are responsible for just about every genetic mutation I can find - p53, pTEN, the list goes on and on, MSI, PD-L1. What are cancer patients normally low in - Vitamin D. There are studies that show that bacteria block the vitamin D receptors. There's another study showing that eradication of intracellular pathogens normalizes the vitamin d levels in people. Casey and I have been doing SQ1 but his vitamin level was 19 or 20 when he was diagnosed. His is now 80. I'm lazy with supplements and I haven't taken vitamin D lately but I had a test lately and it was 50. I was shocked that it could hold its level and thought maybe it can hold its level now. We test a lot of young people for vit d and they never have normal levels. Their cancer rate is higher.
32:14 Bailey: Nagalase, excreted from cancer cells, comes from bacteria too.
Jodi: I was so shocked to learn that! They think nagalase levels are proportional to tumor burden. It comes from bacteria, using fibrinogen and alternative cancer care and that's reflective of a bacterial infection. There's just so much!
32:40 Bailey: Anything that kills tuberculosis will kill cancer.
Jodi: Yeah. There's a trio - TB, Malaria and Plasmodium which is Malaria, mycoplasma. Anything that kills any of those will be effective for cancer. The problem is that there are a lot of things that target bacteria - off label drugs are one of them - every off-label drug I can find is extremely antibacterial. When I look at colon I'm trying to find people who are doing well consistently with that method. I'm not seeing a lot. I'm seeing more so in the natural world a more stable steady stable disease versus drugs. If it's a bacteria why is that not working? If they're all antibacterial? Resistance - is what I believe it comes down to. There are flavonoids that are found to reverse resistance like EGCG and green tea; genistein which is a derivative of soy. I was trying to figure out why it isn't working - there are bacteria that can live 100 days without food. The idea of starving it - maybe if you knew what it was that would work better?
35:00 Bailey: This reminds me of the Gerson Therapy because Gerson went from curing migraines to curing tuberculosis to curing cancer!
Jodi: Yeah! I'm telling you, that TB thing, it's just always in there.
Bailey: Cindy mentioned MSI - what bacteria is connected with microsatellite instability?
Jodi: There's a study here and it's fusobacterium. Not sure what type you have but that's related to melanoma, colon cancer, pancreatic - there are several cancers that fusobacterium is linked to and it reminds me that that bacteria is also related to sneathia. People think that HPV causes cervical cancer but they recently found that sneathia bacteria is where it starts. The bacteria creates a favorable environment and allows the cells to let the virus in. I discovered those two are related.
Bailey: Cindy said it's endometrial.
Jodi: I would definitely research Sneathia with that.
36:39 Q: How does this research influence how you coach people?
A: The #1 thing is to not cause resistance. You better hope you kill it. I do a lot of tracking, tracking cases. I have sheets and sheets of what people have done. It seems that flooding yourself of nutrients seems to be the steady, stable way, like maybe you could live with this instead of kill it. I'm seeing several things that cause major resistance and problems. Once it's resistant it's really hard. People wonder what is resistance - it's when you can't get inside the cell. There are efflux pumps that spit out anything you try to put in there that fights cancer. The research on how to inhibit these pumps is always about flavonoids. That to me - when I wonder, why are foods the more stable way for many people? I think it's because flavonoids allow substances to get inside the cells.
38:30 With antibiotics…
Jodi: It's just like bacteria - it's the cause or the cure. Antibiotics can stop natural substances from working. It's like immunotherapy, if your gut bacteria are altered, immunotherapy doesn't work as well. It's very tricky and it's the same thing with probiotics, everyone thinks they're great but I feel like it's like tinkering with your DNA. They've recently discovered - and one of the studies was immunotherapy - your gut microbiome took longer to recover after antibiotics if you took probiotics. The good bacteria were taking over the good bacteria. I've created a list of bacteria. Some of the bacteria, lactobacillus reuteri - it's known to take out fusobacterium. Lachnospiraceae - keeps people from getting colon cancer. Trying to determine which ones kill the protective bacteria. If that's something you feel like taking, check it and make sure these other strains are in there. We don't use probiotics, we use food. An apple contains 100 million probiotic bacteria - I believe that's safest until we know more. However, there is some sort of trial going on with I think it's BIOHM Health probiotic specific to colon cancer and the strains that are in it are specific to disrupting biofilms. https://www.biohmhealth.com/ I haven't found anything bad about it. I would wait and see what happens unless we were dealing with something that wasn't stable. Then I would say we could try it.
Bailey: Everyone's microbiome is so different.
Jodi: The testing - I've had people say, "my stool test said this" - it's different than tissue testing. Just because you don't have fusobacterium in your stool doesn't mean that it's not in your tumor.
41:30 Q: What about herbs and supplements?
A: Herbs I'm a firm believer in herbs. We use a ton of spices every day. Everyone knows I'm the garlic girl. Some people consider it an herb. It kills 34 cancer cell lines. I recently found a patent for a garlic IV. Chris Wark always says the truth is simple. It could be simple. The patent for the garlic was actually for herpes but it also said it was for resistant bacteria and Malaria I believe. It was a real zinger on hitting every angle. The patent was relatively new, 2015 I think. It says how to do it, they crushed the garlic, extracted the juice and mixed it with some saline. You can read all about it there. I think I shared it on my page. Wouldn't that be great? There's a study which showed that garlic cleared up ascites. That's a real obstacle for a lot of people when they're in the hospital.
Back to the herbs - it would be hard to find one that doesn't have an anti-cancer mechanism. Think of how much [of the anti-cancer compounds] you can get into each bite that will work for you.
Bailey: It's making me want to juice now.
Jodi: It's making my mouth water for herbs. A pint mason jar - layered organic parsley, cumin, cayenne mixture, a pepper mixture that we dehydrated from our garden, turmeric.
Cumin works like an aspirin. There's a clinical trial going on on aspirin and colon cancer. The data isn't in yet. Aspirin can cause one of the 3 organisms I always mention, probably TB, it can cause it to become resistant. But cumin, just like aspirin, does not cause it to become resistant. If all these tiny bits of info were gathered we could have a much safer path to get healthy.
I have to circle back to the parsley. Dried parsley has 12 x the amount of apigenin as celery. A lot of us who juice do it for the apigenin. But dried parsley is a super super good source so add that to your arsenal for extra potent power.
Supplements: Casey takes 5-6 supplements, not big on them. For them food is where it's at. Jodi is really sensitive to anything that's processed. Any time you heat a protein, you create a glutamate. People in the cancer world don't know it but they know it in the neurological world. It makes her sensitive to different powders and things. She doesn't know anyone in the neurological world who was able to block their symptoms from glutamate drugs. Diet is the way they stay symptom-free.
46:25 How to spell sneathia? (answered)
46:35 Sneathia bacteria really makes her wonder about the garlic-lemon mixture that Dr. Talub came up with. Wonder if it would be really effective for that because it's antibacterial and antiviral all in a real food supplement that you can take. Sneathia is bacterial and TB is viral.
47:28 All the latest drugs for breast cancer and a lot of cancers are phytonutrient cocktails or creations from broccoli that are sulforophane and indole-3. Sulforaphane can kill intracellular bacteria in 24 hours without causing the resistance. I'm hoping and thinking that a phytonutrient cocktail will be the answer that everyone can have without paying for it.