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Cancer Coach Theo Hanson Practice Update Summer 2022


Bailey: Theo the floor is yours, why don’t you share what’s been going on lately?


Theo: Thanks first of all for keeping Momentum together and thank you for inviting me to share some updates and maybe learnings that are going on. It’s been a ride. For those who don’t know, we put our chin up over our skis a little bit. My wife and I took all the money we had, borrowed a lot more and bought a beautiful facility in Costa Rica to be able to run studies and we paid for those studies and they got cut a little too short when COVID hit and the country shut down. Costa Rica was not accepting visitors for 10 months so it made it really hard to make a monster mortgage payment. We bought a beautiful place thinking this was it so we paid about $3.9 million for it and had to give the keys back. Gave the keys back and they sold it for $7.1 million to someone else who was tearing it down and turning it into a monster villa. It was a good testament to my sensibility in real estate and a terrible testament to whatever it is when you get out there and you do things.


We got back in 2020, it was a little hard getting excited about being all in for everybody since we got beat up pretty bad. So we moved out here to Boise, Idaho in 2021 and God has been super gracious and restorative which is my favorite character I think of the Lord is He has a hand in restoring that which has been taken. I think the Lord really had a hand in a lot of what was happening for us getting to grow and I needed to be okay with some things. So it is like I feel like I feel like a caterpillar becoming something else – it felt like becoming mush for a while. And then yesterday I shaved my beard off so for any of you who don’t know me, for ten years I’ve had a beard. And for today only I don’t have a beard but tomorrow I’ll start having one again. I hope it will grow back.


But my goal in today’s share with you guys is to give a couple of key points and answer any questions you guys have. We did go back to starting working with people and I did start sticking to more difficult cases, mostly because they asked and I felt like the Lord was telling me yes. Pretty wild times but I think last week was my 85th consecutive Q&A for Chris Wark in a private group I do Thursday nights where it’s sort of a “stump the answer man.” Many times this year we would go 3.5 or 4 hours. I’d answer every question that would come along and it felt like a privilege to be able to serve and stay connected and give me a chance to reorient. And we did and I’m reminded of the things that separate thrivers from those who struggle to survive. Many of you may already have all of this and know it in your bones. Sometimes we just need to hear them again to remember to prioritize things. So today is just me sharing a couple of things.


We’ve had some really big wins, no real losses from cancer. I lost somebody early last week, an older gentleman who died of complications related to being in the hospital, in hospital treatment. But it wasn’t cancer that took him. But other than that, we’ve been blessed that we’ve again had some big wins, several of these highly documented meaning they had surgical pathology (surgery and pathology reports), scans before and now after we’ve been working with each other for a number of months and it feels really good to have good solid cases of people and can stand up and feel good that they’re not going to get attacked for some frailty in their storyline, because people aren’t always brave, e.g. “I didn’t get an original whatever, I didn’t have a biopsy, etc.”


5:10 Gosh I’m so reminded that mental attitude matters. It doesn’t matter how much we want it for somebody, they have to want it more than we want it for them. If we want it more than they want to do it for them if they’re locked up in fear or hopelessness or something, it’s just a horrible place to be as a practitioner, but go where God calls you to be and that’s about the best that you can do.


5:42 Another point was pain management, if someone’s journey does have them in a state of suffering. Is to work with traditional providers, to look at really smart pain management options because pain can take a really strong person and just erode away at their resilience. I think that’s the beautiful thing about the Lord and the Holy Spirit being our comfort, is that even in the most amount of pain, our true nature reveals itself a little bit and I think that’s something as we love on people who have a diagnosis and we’re helping them to find a better way through that journey as an advocate, coach or practitioner is just to remember in the back of your mind that the human person/body is resilient, but pain has a way of shortening that resilience down.


6:50 And then I’ve been reminded that cancer is not a single causation but rather is multi-factorial. There’s just a lot of things happening at the same time and more and more it seems like a strong social component and emotional component. And then the physical is between mold exposure or history of viral infections and things like that are just pretty profound, I think they’re deserving. So this last year we’ve been real fortunate that we’ve been playing close attention and in a couple of cases I’ve had other practitioners that were on that person’s team and we were able to run tests and look at things and run some medications and it really seemed to be game changers. There’s not one person who stands out, there was one person who had been exposed to aflatoxins (black mold). I think that was really influential in her breast cancer diagnosis. But she had developed a staph infection that was hanging around for a bit so we have a little bit of everything, not just one thing.


8:08 I think sometimes when we’re working with people we have to sometimes listen with our hearts and not with our ears, because sometimes they’re saying things because they think they’re supposed to say them or because they’re putting a stiff upper lip on or they’re doing their level best but unfortunately they’re not being honest with themselves nor with us. And then that’s mostly around isolation and connection is what we really noticed. People may say oh no I have the most loving spouse, and then you dig deep and you find that the spouse can’t take any time off of work for them and they eat separate types of food and because of the strange work schedule that the spouse is keeping that there’s no real social time with each other. There’s no date nights, there’s no date time. It’s like well how exactly do you feel loved? How do you feel so care-full about your spouse… I wouldn’t even know where to start. Like what’s the act of love, the action, the words, what was the thing that worked for you when that person’s not even around? So sometimes we have to hear what someone’s saying but be ready to listen in a way that goes deeper and wider. And when we do, we can help interrupt isolation. If somebody isolates themselves, like most people with a diagnosis do, they evade, they don’t want to talk about it with people who aren’t interested in their approach, and/or they’re fearful that they’re making a bad decision or they’re honestly overwhelmed. Whichever those are, we just have to remember that they want to kind of move themselves away from connection, and we want to bring them back to connection. We want to leverage the evidence to show…


10:10 And I think the final one would be that there’s a monumental difference between I’m going to kick cancer’s [butt] and I still have a lot of living I still want to do so it’s not going to have anything over me – that kind of attitude – versus a slightly different attitude which is maybe God let me have cancer so I could go through this and then inspire others or maybe this is a tap on the shoulder that I need to reset some boundaries and start taking better care of myself and that I need to expect better from other people and I need to forgive other people or I need to make room for other people. That second group is always talking about interconnectedness into some form of family or band or tribe or community. And when we follow those people through time, according to these eudaimonic studies we see that those people in the second group outlive the people in the other group 4-10 times longer in fully conventional settings. Just the mental attitude changes our biochemistry, resilience; it also opens us up to be able to work with more people and to be comfortable with having more communication; to maybe pause someone on your team who was very useful in the beginning but may not be super useful right now because their area of expertise may not be totally appropriate this minute or their passions or bias or whatever it is.


11:43 I really wanted to be as succinct as I could; I think I’ve been known to be verbose and go on. But I wanted to give you those nuggets as they were which was: 1) make sure the person you’re working with has a will and desire to live that is greater than your will and desire for them to live; 2) be on guard for pain management when you can if you can help, if you can help support the pursuit of underlying diseases, that’s super useful, and helping somebody to stay in a place of receiving social support and connectedness and finding that mental attitude of focus on where you’re going. And if you’re going is only self-serving, it’s probably not going to turn out so good, so if you could help them to focus on concepts like hey, if time and money weren’t a concern, what would you do, who would you help, who would you do things with? If you could make change, what change would you make? If someone can see themselves alive and being of value and contributing in the future, that’s the goal, that’s the place when the body chemistry seems to be the best. Those are my points – super sweet and on target.


13:12 We’re way past 200 patients, we’re somewhere hovering around the 80% success rate, which is monumental by comparison to anything anybody ever else has done; the 20% that we couldn’t do, most of them were self walk-aways, they just couldn’t finish a 12-week commitment or they just couldn’t take action because they were locked up in anger, bitterness or fear. So the majority, we’ve really been blessed with wins, but it’s also a big world with a lot of different types of cancer, so we’re still really humble and cautious.


13:45 Bailey: That’s amazing, thank you so much, Theo. First, can you define what you mean by success, 80% success?


Theo: So yeah that’s a really good question, and I think that we need to always be asking stuff like that for clarification. So we define in the studies, we have endpoints. So success would be, in one group, in 21 days or less can we (or somewhere within a 30-day window with 21 days) with us can we demonstrate a change in cancer markers, tumor size, something along those lines; so we were able to show a reduction in CA markers, tumor size often. Our best one was a gal who had a 42% reduction in metastatic disease to liver in a 23 day window; image to image was 23 days apart. For the other group that did not come to be with us, it was always at a distance – in 12 weeks could we show a halt of disease and maybe even the regression. We ended up having a few people who were nearly disease-free or totally no evidence of disease in that window of time. We’re about to log another one right now, and I think she’s going to be the fastest that we’ve ever had. Not metastatic, she’s a [stage] 2B, but we had a metastatic patient at 98 days.


15:10 Bailey: Wow, that’s incredible. So basically, showing signs a reversal of cancer.


Theo: Yeah, the only thing we can’t control is time. Because one of the things we learned is that after people spending 21 days with us, re-entry home was really difficult bc it was the environment they had gotten sick in. And then they had been pulled out of this sort of massive but loving disruption, it wasn’t violent, it was very gentle, they were well-taken care of, very intimate, for those who don’t know, it was only 5 people at a time. Kim and I would spend 21 days, breakfast lunch and dinner on the same property. We focused on programming but we also made sure there was adventure, walks on the beach, and we taught them how to make incredible food on top of the protocol. We had chefs and nobody did their laundry, everything was done for you. Literally all you had to do was go to the bathroom and show up to the classes, and it was luxury. So that was one kind of environment.


16:20 Then the other, the 12 week was more uphill. And it took longer to get a result, as far as we didn’t see any super fast, one-month big big remarkable turnarounds but we saw longer durations and a longer duration and more of an ability to hold that. I think that they say it takes 3 weeks to develop certain habits. I think most psychologists would disagree and say that it depends on what you’re facing as to what you have to do. I should’ve mentioned that part of our study framework was not to get into trauma release. We didn’t want to do any desensitization or EFT tapping or any kind of projection of icons or characters in your life. What we did do around psycho-oncology was helping people understand how busy the mind can be and to understand what story we tell ourselves and where those stories came from, and they may have come from trauma or early childhood suffering. But we didn’t go into any ways to manage trauma other than to understand that it happened and that you may have received some gifts because of it, and then try to re-signify and redefine how that event affects you. But we didn’t get into trauma release. So that’s why I think that… there are so many things when you’re doing a study that you have to take into consideration, but we put everybody in the same diet, same limited supplement strategies. Nobody was allowed to do poison, we didn’t do mistletoe or low-dose chemo, or any of those things. Our study was specifically focused on diet and lifestyle with a heavy emphasis on lifestyle, not just diet, because obviously diet is a cornerstone.


18:21 Bailey: That’s awesome. The retreat is sparking an idea now about maybe why I healed so quickly, in ten weeks. Partly because I wasn’t really living real life, I was in college and then I had moved home – I had taken a medical leave of absence and everyone was taking care of me, and essentially I just had to show up as well. But for someone who has to keep working or raise a family that would not necessarily be the case.


Theo: Would you say that it was, I don’t want to say easy, but manageable for you to put confidence and trust when you arrived at CHIPSA, feeling like you were in the right place, and it was the right thing for you to be doing at the right time?


Bailey: Yeah, I did.


Theo: Yeah.


Bailey: Yeah, I felt that it was my best option at the time.


Theo: Yeah. And I think that that’s important, not that that was a promotion for the new CHIPSA or anybody else but I think it’s one of the things that we have to realize that faith is


Bailey: Big.


Theo: Yeah, huge, and I think that some people equate faith to believing in the positive. And it’s actually confidence in something, a reasonable expectation because there’s already been evidence of it before. And so I think that when it’s not working for us at a clinic or any place else, is that we don’t say that it doesn’t work or it’s not going to work for me, it’s that you need to recognize that you’re an individual and there may need to be some individualization for you, and this may also be just the first chapter in an amazing story that is your life, in which your cancer journey may have more twists and turns than most, and just be okay with that.


Bailey: Sweet.


Theo: Yeah.


20:18 Bailey: Candace had a question about ascites, the science of it, what does it mean in terms of is the cancer advancing?


Theo: Yeah, thank you, so I think it depends on the type of cancer you’re talking about. We see ascites a lot when the lymph is involved. So if you’ve got non-Hodgkin lymphoma and you’ve got a lot of nodular involvement, especially in the peritoneum, then you’re going to see a lot of ascites, and if your liver is really, really swollen. So ascites is there to protect us but unfortunately it becomes its own sort of suffering, a disease of itself almost, because the ascites can cause a tremendous problem whether you end up with odd lymphedema if you sit too long or if you laid one way or another you get this kind of lymphedema swelling up on just one body part. But in general, ascites is typically going to be located at a specific spot. It’s the body’s way of trying to protect. If you go back to Ryan Leulf, when he got to me on August 18th of 2017 with a full-blown recurrence and they had called for hospice, we took nine liters in one week off of his abdomen of ascites. Nine liters! It’s mind blowing to think that somebody’s belly could hold that much. But I think in that situation the disease was raging and that was the way it was protected. But just within two weeks it started to subside. We took an approach to help move some of that liquid out by looking at magnesium as a great way to draw any kinds of excess fluid into the bowels to get rid of it. You can take it orally and you’ll get diarrhea or loose bowels probably.


22:17 I’m just reading the notes… In this instance CA 125 increases, ascites is ongoing. Candace what I’d say in reproductive cancer, I’d really want to sit with the person and push on the envelope a little bit around their perception of themselves and guilt, sex, being violated or not being violated, making a bad decision that goes against moral character, or being judged or around those lines. Or a partner you may have had along the way, what’s the role of HPV. If we do look at that we can usually soothe the emotional part which is usually out of sight and we can’t hear it so we can calm down. So if we were to sit and pray that’s one thing. If we were to sit and be still and wait upon the Lord and just to ask, what stories am I telling myself or what’s coming up? These things rage in our head and they’re all kinds of things, and a lot of times they’re critical and self-judgmental. And I’d encourage that to come up and take inventory and then ask where they’re coming from. But also HPV or with herpes, but especially HPV I’d jump on Novirin. It’s available at www.no-viren.com which is an herbal supplement of five botanicals and it shows in medical literature to clear HPV, it’s the only thing that’s ever cleared HPV from the human body. Maybe that isn’t something that you’re worried about or your results didn’t come back that way. It also works with herpes, and that includes Epstein Barr and cytomegalovirus, diseases which may have not been communicable through epidemiology but rather were communicable through vaccination programs and things like that. I would really be looking there, I would be looking at how my attitude is around, as a woman, women bring life into this world in a most amazing way. How do we feel about that and what’s our history – were we forced to go somewhere, a termination of a life that we didn’t want to or did we lose a child to suicide or addiction or something like that. Where are we, do we feel that sex has been very unpleasant and not good thing for us as a human being or socially around marriage and things like that.


25:15 [Quite a bit of anxiety, type A personality, trust issues. Has a therapist, life coach, does acupuncture.] Yeah for sure, I would look at the antivirals. You could also, if a doctor is willing, prescribe Zovirax, which is a herpes drug. Very few side effects to be worried about, and that might just help to suppress a virus. Again, we’re sometimes shooting in the dark because we have very little time. And when someone starts to have climbing CA 125 and ascites, they’re losing the battle – where is the loss of ground covered? And it’s usually, if we keep pushing forward on the four categories: 1) are we putting everything in the body and on the body that fights cancer (nurture), 2) are we learning to sit still and take inventory to breathe (breathe), 3) the love and support healing connection and 4) believe – in ourselves, our body’s ability [to heal], our worthiness, our team members, our treatment decisions, that our cancer is temporary and believe that this is part of something much bigger. If we press in these four corners, we eventually get something to kind of erupt like a bit of a volcano and we get the nail into it.


26:37 (Theo reads a comment in the chat.) Wow, wow and wow, it’s a lot, Candace, for her to be through. Very interesting, we’ve seen a few cases of COVID leading to advanced cancer in lung out of nowhere, but I’m not familiar with ovarian. It sounds like, I’m just going to go out on a limb, is look for signs of self loathing or disappointment with the self.


The herbal supplement – it’s Novirin, and it’s available at – and these guys, you have to stay on them, let them know it’s super important and timely. I tried to buy them, I offered to buy them just because I was so tired of putting orders in and going weeks without getting product and not getting an answer back so I don’t know what’s going on, but others have tried to create the product as well and in the research they didn’t get the same result. But there’s good literature on that so you can look up Novirin or Gene Eden. When you go to the website you’ll see that both of them are there, but we choose Novirin. Both of them have papers on them that were pretty impressive but I prefer the Novirin for a few reasons, I thought that the papers were a little bit better.


28:09 This many years in, so it’s been, this is 8 years, I still believe that the majority of cancers can be healed. The way that we pose it is, do you and your team believe you have 8-10 weeks to implement all the evidence-based natural remedies you can do, we’re not looking to do everything. We’re looking to do some very specific things, we’d be glad to join the team. Or the opposite side is someone’s already done conventional, they’re now treatment-resistant and they don’t really have any options so those are palliative. I like those because those are, from an ethics perspective, we can do all the stuff we want to do and get in there, because what else do we have? No one else has a road map for anything for them to be able to do.


29:02 Sheena, that’s such a great question. My current position until something points differently, is if they don’t have the will, it doesn’t matter how bad we want it, they’re tired, they’re beat up, their in pain, and sometimes it’s not a physical pain sometimes it’s an emotional pain. They’ve been alone or they’ve felt like they’ve been alone, and a lot of people come to us, secretly, to find the way to finish the chapter without pain and suffering. I don’t even know if they know that they’re saying that or thinking that when they come to us, but I think their actions what I’ve seen, looking at the difficult cases, and even those we have some improvements in, but nothing is sustainable, unless you can walk around with them the entire time. We did have a couple of 21-day stays that it was remarkable, considering you could tell that they...it was very limited. But if you do expose the body to amazing relaxation, to nutrition, to unconditional love, and you do have the ability to be confident about a very positive future, even if it’s only for a few days, there will be a pretty big change.


30:32 So I’m reading the pancreatic [question], so I have two pancreatic patients right now; one I’m just now onboarding and the other one I’ve been dealing with. I had two previous, all stage four. So all four of these individuals… the first two had metastatic disease to the liver. One of these does not, one of the new ones, that’s not where the metastatic disease is. The three of them had heavy tumor burden in the head of the pancreas, this one I’m onboarding now does not, so that’s where it’s a little more difficult. What we had in common with all those was low dose chemotherapy in conjunction with all those things that we already know. And a lot of love and a lot of trying to help them put words to their feelings and experiences, and letting that tumor burden shrink enough so they can qualify for the Whipple procedure (surgical procedure to fold the pancreas over). So the two females, they’re both alive, and one is at seven years, one is at six years and so both of them were considered to be no chance, no hope. One of them we used botanicals in, one of them we did not. I like the collective of botanicals that we used, which were astragalus and some other derivatives from some flowers and things. There’s a whole world around there around helping with emotional release and things like that with using botanicals and maybe physical experiences, I don’t know. But basically, no I don’t know, the labs are pretty much circulating tumor cell counts and scans, unfortunately. So you said is there anything I can do to keep watch on mine and my twin’s health with pancreatic function – as far as general pancreatic function, yeah, you always want to look at your AST, ALT and alkaline phosphatase, those are generally going to give you a good idea. “Had Whipple surgery but no real nutrition.” I agree Candace. My mom was actually far more committed in advance to natural treatments than I ever was. I was [pre-med] when she was going through cancer, having a first time reaction to chemo that almost killed her. So she stitched together her own plan back in 1990 and she managed to do 13 years which was fantastic, but she gets the credit because I was very much mainstream at the time.


33:16 But as far as the ongoing labs for pancreatic health and stuff like that – you look for how well you’re digesting, do you have any discomfort or pain. Body weight really matters with pancreatic cancer – we don’t want to be too heavy and we don’t want to get too terribly thin just for durability reasons. But we want to understand how are we digesting, what does our poop look like in the toilet. Based on our diet if it’s floating then it’s too much fat, if it’s sinking to the bottom then it shouldn’t be, things like that, those are just rudimentary ways. You can also do stool [tests] every six months. You can do a Genova GI Effects. There’s a Doctors Data one too but Genova [Diagnostics] has a GI Effects comprehensive. And you can look to see what’s happening in your digestion, and if your digestion is falling apart that’s a sign that the pancreas is falling apart.


34:10 [Twin not digesting things well, gall bladder, I’m concerned, no money for small intestine scope.] Yeah that sounds good Candace, there are some complexities to that, which I usually get fired up on. If I had any bandwidth I’d be volunteering to jump in and unfortunately I don’t, I have to figure out how to get more hours than I have appointments but… the acupuncture and Chinese Medicine has a lot to offer in liver, pancreas and gallbladder function and I’d encourage you to find someone amazing, and if you can’t keep looking, and you’ll know when you find them. You’re welcome, Candace.


35:06 Bailey: I have a question, Theo, how often do you use CTC (circulating tumor cell) or cell-free DNA tests to monitor, and which ones have you found most helpful?


Theo: Yeah, well it’s been tough because the CT (circulating) DNA science is exciting and there’s so much that I want to see that frontier go. It feels like CellSearch is the most affordable, reliable, consistent across all cancer types. Only FDA released for 4, but in talking with their medical director and stuff it shows for all 300 lines of cancer, you’re always going to have circulating tumor cells. So I like it whenever possible, which has been very rare, is to get those markers as soon as we can, early on, so we can know how many CTCs and if there are any CA markers and a CEA – most cancers emit a CEA – not the best marker in the world because it doesn’t tell us a whole lot. But in breast cancer getting a CA-125 and a 19-9 makes a ton of sense to do in addition to the 15-3 and the 27-29 because they’re just dots that tell us a picture, but they give us a much fuller picture, and do it again as you’re into an intervention. And if your intervention is working you’ll know because the numbers are going down. Many people can tell their tumor burden because they can palpate it or feel it. If you can feel that it’s reducing the microenvironment around the tumor is softening, those things are all useful. Ultrasound is not a horrible system for generally keeping track on something while you’re shrinking. The frequency goes how often are you in a sprint with your protocol and then you want to retest it. For me its 8 weeks minimum, but if you feel at all like something is not right or if you’re not making headway then test earlier. But once the body starts to heal you can open that timeline up you can see that you’re healing, you know that it’s healing. You’re able to see it on an ultrasound or all of those labs. The CA markers are pretty affordable, those walk-in labs. The women’s 27-29, 125, alpha-1 and there’s a 15-3, 19-9 is $235 and the 27-29 is another $35. For around $400 you can request them yourself and get those labs. New York and some other states have some limitations around walk-in labs, so go on vacation around the border to the next state.


Bailey: That’s a great idea, I never thought of that – going on vacation and getting your blood work done. The GI Effects was not available in New York but it is now, they got rid of the CDSA 2.0, so.


38:20 Theo: Yeah, and I like that one a lot but not for re-testing all the time. What I’m trying to understand is, especially if someone is on protocol for 3-4 weeks and we test them and they have deficiencies, they’ve had enough nutrition intake, but now we know really where they’re not synthesizing and then we can cross-reference that again, which types of bacteria help to synthesize those elements, and then that gives us an idea for a targeted probiotics strategy. Again, those are sophisticated things that I almost never get to play with because you master the fundamentals and disease starts to go away. It’s really super strange, it’s crazy.


39:08 Bailey: You said probiotics for specific bacteria – my mind went to foods, but probably all of them to some degree you see the beneficial bacteria.


Theo: Yeah, because it’s probiotics and prebiotics, it’s the whole package, it’s the colors of the rainbow, it’s the terpenes, the flavones, the flavonoids, the chalcones, the salvones, all these other phytocompounds that we don’t even, like we’re thinking “Vitamin A through mineral Z, through zinc!” But we’re not, there’s all this other medicine in these plants. Allium and limonene, these things are super potent in helping the body do its job. For me, it always goes back to keeping the free resource we always have. It’s funny, it’s had a renewed visit, TheVidaProtocol.com. There’s four videos that come to you, get auto delivered. Everything always lands in your junk box, I don’t know why, I tried to whitelist it. I can’t change it, it’s been that way for years. It’s always been free. But look at the list of ingredients, there’s 28 of them. It’s a lot different than some people’s protocols who are eating 6-8 different vegetables consistently. But what if we open it up to look at all 34 essential nutrients. From the lens of terpenes, flavones, flavonoids, nutrients, antinutrients. It gets to be super exciting.


40:49 Another thing we’ve seen is to be super careful with supplementation when you have active cancer with the idea of overusing antioxidant strategies. When they come in pill form there seems to be a significant risk of metastases. So taking supplements may not be our magic pills, we may just have to do the work, which is to eat like we love ourselves and we eat from the garden… Instead of taking that bottle.


41:16 Do I have any experience with wormwood – um, only a little bit. We used it when I worked with Dr. Sunil Pai, that was one that he would prescribe depending on what overgrowth you had and what you were looking to do. There is a lot of new work when you look at Ivermectin and others as having antiparasitics that exert an anticancerous effect and it’s not because of a parasite, it has to do with the chemical composition and what it’s interrupting or suppressing. We have some pretty good data. We have a couple of patients now that have elected to be on Ivermectin. I think the one was a pretty good example, unfortunately he passed, which was the one who passed, not from his cancer – we stopped a very advanced stage 4 esophageal cancer. We got it to pause, every month the scan results would come back with very subtle changes on a very fast growing case where they (the doctors) were like “You’re not going to be here in six months, there’s no way.” 17 months later he was still very much alive. And his cancer hadn’t progressed significantly, it was very subtle. So I think that there’s room for it, but Artemisinin and wormwood are very popular, the literature is favorable on them. It wasn’t our onramp. We’ve never been looking for everything you could do, we’ve been looking for the opposite – for the minimum viable protocol, what’s the minimum thing that everyone has to do, not could do to bring a result. What are the common denominators that we can be more scientific about it.


43:03 So everyone is an individual, if you’re drawn to something, honor your intuition. Remember the intuition is the Holy Spirit whispering at us. The Holy Spirit doesn’t scream, at least not for me. Get quiet and maybe you’ll hear the Holy Spirit nudge you toward something. And I think something can be good for you for a while, and one day you’ll wake up and think that something isn’t good for you anymore, and that can very much be true.


43:32 Bailey: Anything else that you want to share, Theo?


Theo: Hope – I wish I knew how to sell hope, and I don’t mean sell hope, I mean just to share hope. Which I don’t know how to do since I’m such a pessimist and I’m such a conservative around, I’m a precisionist and I just have all these demands and things and so I just think that the takeaway for those of us who have faith is that we serve such a loving and magnificent Creator who has the potential to move the hearts and minds of kings and to bring things in. The gentleman who just passed away, I promise you, if there was ever a case of God was going to bring somebody home no matter what we did, that was the case. Because we, everything, an undiagnosed significant peptic ulcer that was bleeding significantly that was misdiagnosed as esophageal cancer bleeding – just weird things – all these things we rescued him but the Lord had a different plan, just reminded me that He is very much involved both in the success and the timing to come home. So accept it, it’s beautiful, life is life and death is death. Cancer doesn’t necessarily have to be a death sentence. As Ty would say. I just think a lot of times it’s just stories that get built around the C word that don’t need to be. It’s just another disease, it’s just another tap on the shoulder, another wake up call to go unpack some things and change the way we live our lives.


45:18 Bailey: Thanks for sharing that, Theo. And I can identify with being like or struggling with the more hopeful side of things. Not taking the time to recognize the positive but, maybe a short recognition but then going into the questioning or criticisms. Constructive but, still.


Theo: I think we can surrender to a situation without surrendering to a force. I don’t have to give up, but I can recognize – no matter how much I don’t want it to be hot today, it’s going to be hot. Or if I have to do something difficult, then go do something difficult. That I recognize that I’m okay with it, and I describe it like this. A lot of times, if you’re on a motorcycle or a bicycle and you see a rock that’s not supposed to be there. And you’re like gosh I hope I don’t hit that, if I hit that I’m going to crash. The best thing you can do is take your eyes off the rock and put it back onto where you’re going. Where do I really want to go? Then you’ll miss the rock, strangely enough. But if you keep focusing on how important it is to not hit the rock – “I’ve gotta cure cancer, I gotta solve this, I can’t not do this” - then we end up smashing right into that rock in the strangest of ways, like a magnet. And it just gets really messy, and I think to accept that there’s a rock in the road. There’s an opportunity, like a mirror, to face our mortality and these other things. If we take a deep breath, start looking around and say, “Where is my life that’s not in its best form? Where are areas that would be even better if…?” Or, “How do I feel about…?” I think a lot of times when we get older, we start to think – it’s not that our bodies are breaking down, it’s that we’re beginning to focus our energy on hurts, unmet needs, unresolved issues with people we care about, or people we care about who don’t care about us the way that we think we should. Or we care for people and now they’ve grown up and left the home. Now, who are you? Well I was mom for 20 or 30 years, and now I’m married to some jerk. What do we do, I don’t even know what we’re about and I don’t really like hanging out with him, or you do, but it’s – who are you? I’ve been a thing, a brand for three decades – but who are you? What delights you? Who do you spend time on, are reflective of the gifts that you have to bring to tribe or community. Or are you serving just as a slave, is it out of balance?


48:03 Bailey: Thank you. Dacia, did you have a question?


Dacia: Yeah, I was just going to say it’s such an honor to meet you, I’ve heard such good things about you, great and wonderful things. I just wanted to say you have so much wisdom and I really appreciate what you were saying about the person having to want it more because where I work I really don’t have people coming to me, I’m usually trying to go to them to offer nutrition for cancer and just talk to them about that. Usually 9 times out of ten people aren’t interested and I get rejected and it can get discouraging. I wondered if there’s a different way I can present it or maybe I’m doing something that’s not – I just don’t know – but maybe like you said it’s a matter of the person wanting it themselves or having that moment of what else can I do? Or be interested before I even come in the room... Do you have a suggestion of maybe a lead-in or something I could open up with, that may be more apt to get a positive response.


Theo: Is this s clinical setting? Like a doctor’s office?


Dacia: Yes, it’s a conventional outpatient cancer clinic where patients are coming in for their chemo and radiation treatment, so I’m in a setting that’s not very encouraging for that so it’s hard to begin with, but I try to do what I can to help people just look at what they’re eating and what they’re doing. I just feel like I’m not being very successful at getting more people to be interested or just to even consider it.


Theo: Welcome to America. It turns out that most people, our medical system is almost based on the fact that people don’t want to take responsibility or actions to change their lives. Almost everybody knows that the risk of developing disease is significantly higher for those who don’t eat well. But yet somehow it doesn’t always translate. You are in an interesting space where you’re there to serve wonderfully the person who is ready for you. And the people who aren’t ready for you, you’re there planting seeds. It’s okay if it’s a no for now, you’ll plant a seed and it’ll take root and grow hopefully in them because it’s about them and not about you so instead is really just to be your most happy, energetic, and fulfilled self so that when the person is ready can listen… And I have a strong position, if we are going to do poison, let the poison be poison. Do our best to eat from the common sense side of the menu. Stay away from fast foods. But gosh darn it, sometimes treatment is really rough and hard to endure. So there are some foods we can eat and things we can do to help minimize side effects. But I’ve always had the position that I don’t want them to associate that if they’re on a carboplatinum chemo, I don’t want them to have that metallic taste or throwing up and associate it with good-for-you food. I’d rather just when they finish up treatment. So in the discussion too it might be “Here’s my role in your oncology support team. And that is I can help you make food choices that will minimize some of the side effects of treatment maybe help lighten those, and then more important if you want to stave off recurrence we can talk about ways to make some shifts that would appear to radically reduce your chance of having to go through this a second time and you can definitely affect those around you to help them prevent from hanging to come hang out with us at a great big facility like this. We’re always trying to build them up and know that they’re making a good decision and that we care about them and we have their back. But I think your expectations is just shifting and just saying, you’re really there, you’re blessed you get to serve the person who is ready really well, and they’re going to tell you how ready they are, and it’s probably going to be 1 in 15 or 1 in 20 or another weird number, that you’ll sit with. But they’re gonna come to your door and be super glad they met you. Because you’re going to be the difference between whether or not they have a recurrence or not and you have a big role in that. Does that make sense?


Dacia: Yeah, it does. Yeah, that’s great advice. Thank you.


53:17 Theo: And thank you for what you’re doing. I know it’s hard to work in an environment where everybody snickers and sneers. But I’m pretty good about fighting with oncologists about their big gaps and them understanding that they don’t know everything, if we slow down we can all work together. I’m glad you’re working in an environment where you don’t have to have that contention and so I think it’s just such a blessing that you just get to exist. What a great – the people who come through there for treatment are receiving a blessing far greater than most because they get to see you.


Dacia: Thank you, that’s very kind and encouraging. I appreciate that.


Theo: Keep going, keep doing it.


Bailey: Thanks so much, Theo, for sharing your time and wisdom with us today, and for coming on a Tuesday at your worst time. And thank you ladies for coming and sharing your questions and helping to create an engaging conversation. Theo, is there anything that we can do for you or pray about for you?


Theo: Yeah, thank you, just pray that God’s will reigns as we go forward in the things that I work on in my brain. One of them is, I don’t have any resistance in my 12 week program at this point because of the results. It’s a relatively high ticket cost for people compared to some other options. I don’t think it’s that much really and I don’t mind telling people. So, if I work with someone for 12 weeks it’s $6000. I don’t have any push-back but the problem I have is that there’s just one of me and there’s only so many cases I can work on and just emotionally not fall apart because you bond with them, you’re journeying with them. And so it’s been on my heart to move that to a six-month app-based environment when I can do a little bit more of a weekly group one-on-one answering Q&A and bringing in a naturopath or maybe some other functional or somebody but probably a naturopath to do some intake, an assessment, some prescription around some of the things and to be able to offer that for sub $1000 for 6 months or some version of that, we’ve been working on, so that can be not infinitely scalable but significantly more scalable than where we are now. I’ve just gotten to the point where I’m turning 53, for those who don’t know… I’ve got 7 grandchildren, we lost our life savings and we’re rebuilding. God has blessed us and just for those who don’t know, I run operations now for a development company and I have total flexibility to work with all my patients any time I want to. My partner is a believer who is a cowboy door-kicker who is just finding humility in the Lord in all that he does. But we’re building 550 homes here in the valley as developers so we’re breaking ground, over the next year and a half we’ll build those out and then some. Kim and I have our own farm to table project that we’ve been nursing along, the Lord has never taken from us yet so we just keep assuming that it’s a go. But that’s going to be a 70-home development on 848 acres where everybody has 10 acres and a real ranch, farm to table and things like that. So the Lord has been super restorative but I also at 53 it hurts my soul to work with more than 4-5 people at a time. I just care and there’s at some point I don’t want to journey this intimately with anything more than that and I want to be able to pass the torch and share with others. So yeah if you can just pray that God would have his hand in whatever it is, I don’t have a name for it. The app is done, I’m just running a program for it and writing content, whatever happens on Day 36 versus Day 41 and things like that. I’m pretty happy about it but it’s a cool app and it’s white label and somebody else’s hard work that I don’t have to keep trying to spend this money on. So if you could pray for that that would be spectacular.


57:50 Bailey: Absolutely. Do you have a doctor in mind or are you looking for or a naturopathic doctor?


Theo: I’m looking for someone who is really heart centered, a believer, intuitive, they feel that the Holy Spirit ministers to them on a regular basis, where they can be with somebody to know how to serve them. And maybe know some people like that too so we can expand that around them. I have an idea of the economics so they would revenue share based on the number of patients they participate with, and I think it’s not lucrative but it’s better than what most of them are earning right now. You just sort of know when you know. I met Dr. Wagner a couple of days ago. She’s not a naturopath, she’s an M.D. but she’s so far ahead in nutrigenomics and everything else that we had assessed a patient identically. She doesn’t have any background in the psycho-oncology side and everything else but she does in reading gene expressions and she was saying these genes are this way because of these types of life experiences and holdings and I said well, she’s got a disease and we were saying the exact same thing but you just triangulate it and this is a new adviser on the team that can help advise and then you meet other people and think they might be a really good somebody to provide services for people in the process.


59:25 Bailey: Awesome, praise God. Well can I approach the throne for you?


Theo: Yeah! Yes.


Bailey: Dear gracious Lord, thank You so much God for meeting us where we are and for having compassion and mercy Lord on us all. We all need that and I’m so grateful for it. Thank You so much for Theo, for the gifts that You’ve given to him, the heart that You’ve given him and the way he’s responded to Your promptings and Your calling on his life to serve people in the cancer community and to guide them into restored health in every way, in their nutrition, in their mind, in their environment, in their soul, Lord. I pray You continue to bless the work of his hands, that all that he does would have success. I pray that you continue to bring people to him who he can and will help, and that they will share their stories Lord so that others can hear about it and find their own healing as well. I pray for this new project and all the projects that Theo is working on, and with Kim, the farm to table process and this development with homes and lots of land, Lord, I pray You bless that. Bring all the right people into their space for that and also for this program that he can reach more people who have cancer with him and a naturopathic doctor for one-on-one calls. I just pray that you make the way for him, pave the way Lord, and thank You that You promise to reveal Your will to us as we seek You. So I thank You for the many gifts and fruit that will come from that project and I thank You so much again for this time. I pray You bless everyone on this call, and those who aren’t here, Lord, I pray that they would, as Theo says, that they would feel seen, heard and loved. I thank You for this, in Jesus’ name.


1:01:48 Theo: Amen. And again, thank you for the invite to be with you guys today. I’ve definitely missed the group. It was so fun to be able to do that for a long time. And then when I couldn’t it felt like I was had that deep sense of missing out.


Bailey: Oh, I’m so sorry, but well, it’s possible we can move it back to Fridays, it would just have to be earlier.


Theo: I have no idea what’s a good time anymore. You just do it, right, and everyone comes and they feed and they strengthen and sometimes they go and do their thing and then they come back. Much love to everyone who is not on the call who has been on the call before too. And the speaker lineup has been beautiful, I’ve just seen different survivors/thrivers talking about their particular stories, is just super awesome so thank you for that.


Bailey: Praise God. I’m very glad to hear that. Thank you for sharing.


Theo: You got it. Alright guys, well with that, if anyone has any other questions you can always email me.


Bailey: Thanks, Theo, thanks guys, have a great day! God bless.


Mike: Thank you Theo, thank you. Bye bye, thank you.


Bailey: Great to see you or hear you, Mike!


Mike: Likewise, take care.


Bailey: Bye Maricel, bye Sheena!


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